Quorn Roast Style Sliced Fillets - British Corner Shop

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Questions	Answers
If everyone suddenly behaves “perfectly” with their food choices, how much would that go towards becoming sustainable regarding climate change? What I mean is, do we the people have enough power to make a difference when compared to industrial pollution etc	Good question. In short, yes. Food currently causes about 25% of all climate change. Different foods cause very different amounts of climate change, so reducing our food climate impacts by 50% is doable (e.g. that amount of reduction has been found for average vegan diets - but see above that it doesn't have to be so restrictive / simple as going vegan). This would reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 12.5% (50% of 25%), which is significant. Furthermore, if spared land could to be used to combat climate change, e.g. planting trees, then that could offset our remaining food emissions i.e. reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 25%. However, this still leaves 75% of climate change that needs to be addressed i.e. we do also need to stop burning fossil fuels. When we've done that, then food will be the biggest cause of climate change so we need to be thinking about that too
What are some practical steps we can take today to prepare for these realities and make an authentic difference in climate change? I think a lot of folks recycle but that seems like the minimal amount one can do and is it really effective? But then the next step is going vegan or have a compost in your yard. These options aren’t the most practical for middle income families with kids.	Thanks for your great question. Recycling is important for lots of reasons - in terms of climate change it reduces greenhouse gas emissions because the energy needed to recycle is lower than that needed to extract + use the raw materials. But for most foods, the contents of the packaging has a bigger impact on climate change than the packaging itself. For the most part, animal-based foods cause more climate change than plant-based foods (per gram of food or per gram of protein), though it depends a lot on farming practices, and e.g. air-freighted fruit and veg can cause similar climate impacts as the lower emissions meats like chicken. There are big differences in climate impacts between different types of food e.g. an 8oz steak and fries dinner causes over 20 times the climate impact of a microwaved potato and beans - so we can make a big difference by changing our choices. Luckily some of these changes don't break the bank (beans are cheaper than steak!), though I know from personal experience that experimenting with new meals doesn't always go down so well with the kids, so that part is tough... For most people, the simplest place to start is quantities: e.g. halving the quantity of the meat, while adding more veggies! You're right that composting helps - food waste sent to landfill causes extra emissions because it decomposes into methane, a potent greenhouse gas - whereas composting decomposes mostly to carbon dioxide. I know its tough with kids to avoid food waste, but again it can also save money. In our house fwiw, people help themselves from cooking bowl/tray, and if you put it on your plate you need to eat it up, or promise to take less next time! Hope that helps!
Are we screwed?	I am more optimistic now than I used to be, now I know more information. We have all the technology breakthroughs we need to address climate change ... if everyone were to implement the changes needed... The most promising thing I learnt researching about food and climate change was about land: the foods that cause the most climate change also tend to use the most land, so if we change our diets to eat less of them, then we free up land. We really need land to address climate change e.g. by planting / keeping more trees. To give an example to illustrate this, on average, plant-based foods use 16 times less land than animal-based foods. This means that in the extreme case where everyone in the world went vegan, this would free up 3/4 i.e. the majority of agricultural land for other purposes including forest. Since 37% of the ice-free land on Earth is used for agriculture, that's a lot of land! I'm not suggesting we need to go that far, but it shows there's a lot of potential
Hi Sarah, thank you for doing this. Do you have an estimate on what's is the impact of food waste on global warming. I am referring to direct impact on CO2 and methane production food waste. And if it is substantial, can we use food waste to generate energy so deal with 2 things at a time?	Yes, food waste is a significant issue. For an average person, food waste decomposition to methane adds about 20% to their daily emissions. If we collect that food waste instead of sending it to landfill then indeed it can be used to produce methane that's used for energy (or if there are methane collectors at landfill sites). But that isn't the most efficient way to produce energy, because producing the food also contributes to climate change - it would be better to waste less, really..
What type of food would you consider as "ideal" to reduce one's contribution to this problem ?	One study looked at changing the quantities of different foods to meet nutritional requirements and minimise climate impacts https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/96/3/632/4576889 They managed to reduce climate impacts by 90% i.e. ten times less climate change from food! But they admit it wasn't a very palatable diet, containing a lot of whole-grain breakfast cereal (without milk!), peas and seeds! They then went on to look at smaller departures from acceptable diets. This got me thinking though... because I had the same question as you... I suspect that it would be possible to formally meet all the macro and micronutrient requirements by combining different foods in a way that minimises climate change - but it might end up looking a lot like some of the meal replacement drinks available e.g. Huel. I don't think any of these meal replacement drinks have calculated their climate impacts, though and I don't know how healthy they are (e.g. uptake of different combinations of micronutrients - and all the nutrition that isn't in micronutrients).
Which meal choices are unexpectedly bad for the environment? I mean, many people are aware that meat, especially beef, is not eco-friendly, but are there other food items that harm the environment that we are unaware of?	Most people are surprised to learn that a large latte (~500ml of milk) causes a lot more impact than a regular tea or coffee containing just a tablespoon of milk - about 10 times more in fact (e.g. see milk chapter of my free book, linked in my intro at the top). On the plus side, most people are surprised that shipping food isn't nearly as bad as they thought. Shipping causes 100 times less emissions than air-frieghting, for the same weight of food. So bringing an apple from the other side of the world isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand flying e.g. strawberries from another continent brings the climate impact up to be similar to that of a lower emissions animal product like chicken
What are your thoughts on the consumption and farming of insects as a low impact nutrition source? And do you it could ever become part of many people's diets?	I personally think eating insects is quite fun and we often give out free insects at our outreach events for www.takeabitecc.org but in practice it isn't necessary! There are lots of low impact non-insect foods out there! However, farming insects to feed to animals (to replace soy) is a growing industry, and a good thing if the insects are eating things that don't cause a lot of climate change - e.g. food waste or food production byproducts (e.g. leftovers from brewing such as Entocycle)
What do you think is the root cause behind a growing trend of ignoring the science and facts on subjects such as climate change?	Gosh, that's a great question and I'm not an expert on that topic so can't speak with any authority. Speaking as a citizen (not as an expert) I have the impression humans become less rational when they feel afraid (e.g. of climate change), and this isn't helping.. Although COVID-19 has made us more afraid, in many many ways, I see a glimmer of hope that there has been much more weight placed on the opinions of scientists/experts - and awe that humans can't always control nature
Thanks for this AMA! I have 2 questions: 1) Is there anything that you learned in your research that really surprised you? 2) I’m always a little skeptical of efforts to place the responsibility for action on the consumer rather than the industry. Of course our choices matter, but at the end of the day, even if I recycle every piece of plastic that comes into my house, that’s still nothing compared to big box stores that are throwing away tons of plastic every day with no consequences - there needs to be pressure on both sides. Has any of your research been about changes that should be made on an industry scale? For example, “if 50,000 people went vegan, it would have this effect, but if just one cattle ranch {insert fact here}, that would have the same net effect.” Any facts along those lines that you can share with us so that we can then share them with our elected officials?	Absolutely we shouldn't be burdening consumers with all the responsibility. I'm actually mostly passionate about labelling (all foods with climate impacts) for a different reason: food producers end up seeing their emissions numbers, and when they know consumers see them too, they are motivated to change. For example in the UK they have traffic light colours on the front of packets to show the amount of sugar in a product - red is bad, green is good, amber in the middle. They changed the threshold between red and amber - but they gave the food industry good warning - and it turned out that no food moved from amber to red, even though they changed the threshold - because all the food producers reformulated their products to reduce the amount of sugar in them (before the threshold was changed)! So consumers benefited because they were getting less sugar in their food! It would be brilliant if that sort of thing could happen with climate impacts of food!
Is composting and gardening a decent way to prevent some food waste? Is there a difference in gas production between a landfill of food waste or personal compost? Like if a million people composted instead of throwing away their banana peels, would it make the same amount of gasses? Also, what impact does the manufacturing of fertilizer have on the environment? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks	Yes, there is a difference between landfill and personal compost. Compost heaps in people's gardens are usually relatively dry, and so carbon in the food waste decays into carbon dioxide. However, landfill sites tend to be wetter, and so the air (oxygen) can't get in to help turn the carbon into carbon dioxide (CO2), so instead the carbon decomposes more into methane (CH4) which is ten times worse at retaining heat under the atmosphere than carbon dioxide (averaged over a 100 year time period). So it is better if people compost banana peels rather than sending them to landfill. Food waste decomposition at landfill sites adds typically 20% to the climate impact of food, so adding up all the types of food waste (not just banana peel) it is a big deal Manufacturing fertilizer, and nitrous oxide from fertilizer application (whether organic manure or manufactured) are the main causes of on-farm climate impacts from producing plant-based foods (whether for human or animal consumption). The manufacture of fertilizer causes climate change because it uses a lot of energy to extract nitrogen from the air and turn it into fertilizer, and usually this energy comes from burning fossil fuels
I've heard if you feed seaweed to cows, they emit less methane. Is that true? If it is true, why isn't it used?	Yes, there are various methane inhibitors being developed to reduce the amount of methane from cows, which is great - and even better when they get used widely. At the moment there isn't a huge incentive for farmers to use them - having labelling to show the amount of greenhouse gas emissions = climate impact from each pack of food would provide some incentive because at least consumers would be able to see which beef causes less climate change
[deleted]	That's very sad. Definitely that diet is going to affect his physical, if not also mental health. There are definitely eco friendly diets that are much healthier than this! I hope he can get some help to recover his mental health.
How can I eat steak and drink milk and not be part of the problem? Because I really like steak and milk.	yeah, some of these higher climate impact foods do taste really good. I feel your pain! (I love slow roast lamb...mmm) There is a big variation in climate impacts between different farming practices e.g. see this beautiful graphic from the fabulous Our World in Data project https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food#less-meat-is-nearly-always-better-for-your-carbon-footprint-than-sustainable-meat e.g. there's a huge range for beef. Unfortunately this information is mostly not available to consumers. I really want to see climate impact labelling (gCO2e) on each food packet so I can choose the lowest impact food within a category e.g. lowest impact steak. You can also see in the graphic that despite the huge range for beef, it doesn't overlap much with the plant-based foods. So again I'd take it back to quantities and frequency. If you eat a lot of steak e.g. if you ate it daily then its probably your biggest contributor to climate change from your food: an average 8oz steak produced in Europe causes more climate change than a whole day of food for an average person in the world (~10kg emissions cf ~6kg emissions). On the other hand, if you ate steak just twice a year, then the numbers say that this would increase your total food climate impact by 1 percent i.e. not much (2 8oz steaks a year = 210kg of emissions = 20kg cf average food emissions per year of 3656kg = 2190kg so 20/2190 = 0.01 - I'm assuming reddit readers are geeks who want numbers - you can ignore the numbers if you're not that geeky :)
I hear a lot of people say they but organic grass fed beef for the environment, how does that compare to beyond burger in terms of ghg emissions per calorie?	There is a wide range of climate impacts depending on the way beef is produced. It isn't clear that organic grass fed is better than other methods - the longer a cow lives the more it burps methane, and grass causes more cow methane burps per calorie than more refined foods such as soy - however eating soy causes deforestation so these issues partially cancel out. However, emissions from beef generally are much higher than plant based alternatives like beyond burger e.g. you can see that in this fab graphic I mentioned before https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food#less-meat-is-nearly-always-better-for-your-carbon-footprint-than-sustainable-meat You can see that processed plant foods like tofu cause much less climate change than average beef, by more than a factor of 10 (per gram of protein)
Hi Sarah. Thanks for the AMA, it’s been really interesting! I’m interested in getting involved in climate change research, could you talk a bit on how you “learned about climate change properly”? And what others could do to learn more themselves? Thanks!	Great! I started with this fantastic book, written by my former mentor https://www.withouthotair.com/ - this was the inspiration for my work. But for all the latest science, if you're up for a lot of reading, the IPCC reports are amazing - this is the main one https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/sy and then there are two really important updates to it here https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/ and here https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ Happy reading!!! (And wikipedia is incredibly helpful for a lot of easy-to-read explanations - if you check the references are good as always)
Thank you for this AMA. What animal meat has lowest environmental impact? Also, overall would cooked meat be less impactful compared to raw meat (because the facility must have a large oven etc so could cook more efficiently than cooking individually at a house)? Thank you! *Sorry English isn't my mother tongue	Chicken, eggs and fish all have about the same low climate impact, on average e.g. take a look at the beautiful graphic I mentioned earlier https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food#less-meat-is-nearly-always-better-for-your-carbon-footprint-than-sustainable-meat - but again you can see there's a range, and e.g. as they point out intensively farmed chicken is at the lower end of the graphic (though this doesn't always have the best animal welfare). I was surprised to learn that fish has similar impacts whether its caught at sea or farmed (most salmon in the UK comes from fish farms, rather than caught at sea) - its a coincidence that the amount of fuel used to run a ship to go fishing causes a similar amount of climate impact to growing food to feed fish. Its less of a coincidence that farmed fish causes similar impacts to chicken - growing the food is a large part of the climate impacts of each. Very interesting question about cooking at scale! Yes, heating up a large metal box (home oven) is an inefficient way of cooking food compared to bulk cooking e.g. buying pre-cooked. You can also investigate other ways to cook at home that don't involve heating up a large amount of metal (or air) e.g. slow cooking in a well-insulated oven is much better for the climate, even though it takes longer to cook
What do you think of permaculture and converting suburban lawns into food gardens?	We're limited by land to grow more food and to help with climate solutions (such as growing more trees / reducing deforestation), so if people can spare their lawns to do something more useful with the land then that's going to help the climate. The more biomass is building up (stem, trunk, branches, roots) that is permanent, the more carbon is being stored so the more carbon dioxide is being sucked out of the atmosphere and locked away - so turning lawn into permaculture food production is doubly good for the climate (if it reduces the amount of land needed to produce food outside the home, and if the plants are building up mass from one year to the next). However, not all home gardening is as efficient as doing it professionally - for a lot of people its going to be more efficient and effective to plant trees on the lawn cf growing a very small amount of food
Are there any brands you would recommend we use or don't use? (From the U.K btw) Also my mum has started growing veg in the back garden. How much in greenhouse gas is she saving by doing so? (Carrots, corgettes, potatoes and salads if that makes a difference)	All the numbers I'm quoting are averages across production methods but there have been many great questions about how different production methods cause different emissions - indeed they do. I think we can only make significant progress, and have a good discussion, when we have more transparent up-to-date information about how different food items (including brands) contribute to climate change. Ultimately I want to see mandatory accredited labels on all food packets showing their climate impact (gCO2e). To reach that goal we would need a lot of products already doing that voluntarily ... so I encourage you to support brands that already provide that information. In the UK I believe only Oatly and Quorn currently provide that information but hopefully soon more will follow.
	Regarding your question about growing at home: much of the emissions from fruit and veg growing are around transport, storage and refrigeration, and most of the rest are from fertilizer application. So there is a good chance that your mums veg are much better for the climate than shop bought. Having said that, most seasonal fruit and veg cause a small proportion of people's daily food emissions, so its not making a huge difference. However, if your mum previously ate a lot of air-freighted fruit and veg then this makes a much bigger difference. Getting involved with growing-your-own is a great way to learn about seasonal foods and appreciate the hard work put in by farmers, so we waste less food and buy more in season!
the below is a reply to the above
Is there somewhere I can support your accredited labels idea?	There are organisations like the Carbon Trust in this country who do accredited labels. You can find a very nice article which influenced me a lot - by a leading researcher in this field, saying we need mandatory labelling (who also made the data for many of the numbers I'm quoting) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/we-label-fridges-to-show-their-environmental-impact-why-not-food As for campaining to have it mandated - I don't know of an existing campaign. I did work with the Earl of Caithness to table an amendment to the UK's Agriculture Bill, however unfortunately it didn't pass. In case you want more info on that, here it is!
	The proposed GHGE labelling amendment, as tabled, pasted from https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/58-01/112/5801112-IV(Rev).pdf
	``THE EARL OF CAITHNESS BARONESS JONES OF MOULSECOOMB
	253A Page 32, line 36, at end insert—
	“(o) requiring information about attributed lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions for the product to be available at the point of sale, including on packaging. (2A) For the purposes of subsection (2)(o), regulations may include provision for financial assistance for businesses towards the cost of providing that information.”
	Member’s explanatory statement This amendment makes provision for greenhouse gas emissions emitted in the lifecycle of agriculture products to be available to consumers at the point of sale (e.g. on packaging), and allows for the provision of financial assistance for food producers and accreditation bodies to compile this information.''
	Watch the proposal here from 21:17 https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4b68a14d-8050-4135-b78b-7faefe078a3b
	Or read on Hansard here https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2020-07-23/debates/70188585-39D2-4D41-A353-38191DFDF4C1/AgricultureBill#contribution-AE07D635-34F4-4A4A-ABD8-B590B7A170EB
Hi Sarah, If my wife and I are thinking of starting a family would we have a greater impact by doing our best to limit the number of children to one or two (twins happen) or are we in a position with current technology where it would be completely reasonable to have seven like my Grandparents did? This is a serious life choice question for us now as we are both concerned about the future and our impact on the planet and we keep seeing very mixed information on the question.	Gosh, that's a big question. There's a huge range of climate impacts depending on the person e.g. see https://ourworldindata.org/grapheannual-ghg-emissions which is also shown as kgCO2e per person per day in my free book Fig 1.1. In short, in some countries an average person causes over 10 times the climate impact of the average person in another country. So there is a lot we can do in our lifestyles. So 10 very low impact children could cause similar climate impacts to 1 average child. But children don't always do what you tell them :)
How can the size of the universe be 93B light years if the its age is only 13.7B?	The size of the universe might not be related to its age. Usually in research we talk about the size of the 'observable universe' which is the only bit we can see - because light hasn't yet had time to reach us from more distant parts of the universe!
Hi Sarah, how much would emissions be reduced if we eradicated baked beans consumption?	I did look into this when I was writing my book - I get this question a lot! It turns out that some humans do fart small amounts of methane, but this is genetic and not linked to the consumption of baked beans. Even for the humans that do fart methane, its 100 times less than the methane burped by cows to produce a large steak. However, increasing the amount of fibre in diets (e.g. from more beans) is linked to an increase in the amount of wind, and improved health!
Hello, this may not be related directly to your field of study but I just wanted to know what the prospects and career of an astrophysicist might be like. I am considering a career in astrophysics but many people around me tell me it's not worth it. So what would your advice be? Thanks in advance.	Astrophysics is a lot of fun and you learn lots of incredibly important skills along the way, like data analysis, approximating calculations, and of course all the underlying physics. However, its true that there aren't a lot of astrophysics-specific jobs out there - but check out our STFC Food Network+ project which links up astro, particle and nuclear physicists with lots of really interesting food-related challenges www.stfcfoodnetwork.org
As a research scientist..what do you mean when you say..."learned about climate change properly for the first time"? Were you ignoring it before, learning about it improperly before? This phrasing is very odd...	I hadn't given climate change a lot of thought before - I wasn't an eco-warrior growing up - I was interested in astrophysics / the stars. But like most people I was aware of it from hearing people talk / the news etc so I learned about it in a vague way without giving it a lot of my attention. So for me it was a big deal when I got around to sitting down and really learning by asking questions and trying to find out the answers - I guess that's what I meant by 'properly'
how hard is it to do outreach when Brian is hogging the limelight?	the more the merrier :)
Often I feel that people forget about other environmental factors that foods impact. Such as the impact of avocados on local water sources. What is your opinion on people using co2 to compare everything?When often its hard to compare the impact of an 8oz steak to the pack of avocados.	Great question - yes I'm personally focussing just on climate change impacts here but there are lots of other factors including health, taste, cost, human and animal welfare, as well as other environmental impacts like land use, water, biodiversity, runoff etc. I'd love to see all these things factored into the discussion too - but with the numbers for climate change included!
I understand the motivation to try to reduce emissions wherever it is practical to do so in any industry, but surely when it comes to quality of life, trying to make really deep cuts by drastically changing diet isn't really a good way to go? Wouldn't we be better off squarely focusing on key industries - transport, power generation, construction, heavy industry, etc, rather than making people miserable by foisting lots and lots of change upon peoples' diet? Food, water, and housing are three things that are highly personal, with loads of subjective aspects and I'd hate to see e.g. government boldly intrude in this sphere beyond cutting egregious waste and a few worst practices. Maybe some tinkering around the edges is OK but the quality of life cost will rise dramatically with every few % you try to cut beyond the low hanging fruit.	I agree we need to focus on cutting burning fossil fuels. When we've done that food will be the biggest contributor to climate change, so we're going to need to change that too
I would love to only eat sustainably farmed meat and would be willing to pay extra for it, but I find it difficult to find this information. Is there anything I should look for or avoid in terms of labeling, packaging and ‘buzz words’ when I shop for meat? What else can we be doing to encourage all suppliers to provide more transparency into the sustainability of their practices? Thanks	Great question - yes I totally agree its really hard as a consumer to find this information! The key information would be 'gCO2e' or 'grams of carbon dioxide equivalent' on packets - but this is not available for any meat packets that I know of at the moment. Please write to your supermarket and MP to ask them to provide mandatory accredited climate impact labelling (grams of carbon dioxide equivalent) available at the point of sale (e.g. on packets)!
GHG emissions from food constitute how much towards the overall GHG emissions? Aren't your efforts better spent finding out ways to prevent volcanoes from erupting (or other higher impact events) that can put out orders of magnitude more GHG at once?	Food contributes about a quarter of all climate change. Most of the rest is fossil fuels. Volcanoes aren't a significant contributor e.g. see Myhre, G. et al. (2013). “Anthropogenic and Natural Radiative Forcing”. Climate Change 2013 – The Physical Science Basis: Working Group I Contribution to the Fifth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, United Kingdom and New York, NY, USA, 659. doi: 10.1017/CBO9781107415324.018.
Hey Professor! We recently watched Endgame 2050 on Prime Video. They're conclusion was that if "everyone" became vegan, then we'd stop climate change. My husband & I have already made it a point to eat less meat & have stopped buying & eating beef. But, we're not vegans. Our question after watching that documentary is... What happens to all the farm animals if "everyone" becomes vegan?	I don't agree that if everyone went vegan we'd stop climate change because food causes about a quarter of all climate change. Most animals farmed intensively for meat production live for a maximum of a year or two

First a short disclaimer. I eat meat about 10-20 % of my meals and rest of my meals are vegetarian. This discussion is not about whatever meat eating is ethical or vegetarianism is healthy. This is about one hypothetical dude and their spouse.
So, we have this guy that is convictional meat eater. He will go to restaurant and order a huge stake. Meal comes with side of roasted potatoes and carrots that he won’t touch because he came for the stake and becomes full just by eating it. You all know this guy. Now the spouse wants that that the guy will start eating more vegetables and overall healthier, so they start creating dishes using meat substitutes.
Let take a break to define meat substitute in my context. It is any substance that tries to imitate meat texture, flavour profile and/or appearance. This can be soy-based (tofu, tempeh, textured soy granules), wheat/grain based (right now I can buy “pulled oat” (pork substitute) on my local supermarket), fungi (quorn etc.) or even milk based (this includes cheese). Anything that is marketed “just replace your meat with this and your spouse will not know the difference”.
I know how hard it is to convince a life style meat eater to switch to meat substitutes. It is borderline impossible and yesterday it hit me why. The whole approach is wrong. No product I have ever countered can me confused with meat in blind tasting. Nothing and I mean nothing have managed to replicate texture and flavour profile of meat. If you have grown custom to this, then it can never be substituted. By trying to substitute it with something that is comparable to vegetable you give these people impression that because meat substitutes are bad all vegetables are bad. This is because you market meat substitutes as vegetables and they fail in their role. This means the approach is counterproductive.
Even if we found a substance that is 100 % comparable with meat in texture, flavour and appearance but is made from vegetables, meat eaters would be indifference in picking either one. It wouldn’t matter them which one they eat so they will still eat meat if available. This doesn’t lead to real life style change. Think that there are two dishes that look and taste the same. 50% of time they will pick the meat one because they have become interchangeable and they are indifference about it. And even if we get them eat 100% meat substitute they would still not eat any more "real" vegetables. Goal is creating a dish that would reduce their meat consumption more.
So what is approach that I would recommend? You play to the vegetables strengths. They have strong, personal flavours and textures that meat can never give you. Let vegetables be vegetables and create dishes that heroes them but always include meat in them. Then slowly lower the portion of meat in the dish. If before you had 400 gram steak with 100 gram of vegetables turn it into 300 gram steak and 200 gram vegetables and slowly more to point where it is 50 gram steak (for that meat texture and flavour) and 450 grams of vegetables. In this point meat becomes the cherry on top of the dish instead of the dish itself. And this must be done slowly so people grow custom to new vegetable tastes and textures without robbing them joy of meat. This is slow path but once people eat something that they like they will continue to eat it.
Vegetables shouldn’t be substitute for meat. While both fall under broad umbrella of food they shouldn’t be compered. This will alienate opposing side. Let meat be meat and vegetables be vegetables. I argue that the whole concept of meat substitutes is bad strategy despite how close they will become to the real thing.
How to change my view? Find a flaw in reasoning. Find a meat substitute that can pass blind tasting of true meat eaters. Find general benefits of “going cold tofurkey” that out weight the extremely high risk of relapse (I understand border cases like hearth failure but I look for general case).
How not to change my view? Anecdotal evidence about case where you changes some into vegetarian. Arguments about something else except the issue at hand (ie. benefits of vegetarianism).
Added some minor arguments

Hello
I've been really struggling where to post this, partly because I'm concerned about the reaction I'll get. But honestly vegetarian seems like the obvious choice for someone who is actively reducing meat intake and wants to share their new love of vegetarian food. And maybe It can help people who are thinking about becoming vegetarians, but don't want to go all in straight away.
For 2 weeks now we've been eating Genuinely lower meat all the time. Its going great. I've been learning to cook indian food, I currently have about 40 homemade veggie samosas in my freezer. I think about 50% of the vegetarian meals I make are also vegan. (I'm lactose intolerant so I have to actively plan dairy) for a month before this we've been having 1-2 meals a week veggie.
What this looks like in numbers

• My meat intake to start, 800g a week. Bills meat intake to start 1400g a week. Total Weekly consumption 2200g.
• My current meat intake, 250g a week. Bills current meat intake 500g a week. Total Weekly consumption 750g.
• 1450g or 1.45kg Less meat per week. If we can keep it up 75400g or 75.4kg less per year.
• 39kg projected consumed this year for both of us. Average 19.5kg each. The average for our country in 2009 was 84.2kg per person.

I'm including fish and muscles into 'meat'.
How this happened
I'm 25 I've been dating a very considerate partner (Bill) for nearly 3 years and things are going great. This is important because i've had exes who were very emotionally manipulative when I served vegetarian food.
I have a male friend (Dan) who visits weekly who is a vegetarian. Being the food fanatic host that I am I decided to cook only vegetarian food when Dan visited. I spoke to Bill and he was all for vegetarian food weekly provided 'he didn't feel hungry'.
A few weeks passed of Dan coming over for dinner, me serving up some new type of food, and him loudly proclaiming how good the food was with Bill chiming in for the chorus.
At this point I think I don't need to eat meat daily. Bill doesn't need meat daily... Why are we eating it daily?
Anyway Bill and I are planning a food shop. I said to Bill I think it might be a good idea to stop buying meat until we use up what we have (odd meat based items and fish) in the freezer. He agrees so we do our usual monthly shop minus the meat. Guys I bought so much veg frozen and fresh the trolley was over flowing and it still came out about half the price of what we would normally spend.
When we get back in the car bill turns to me and says "you know I don't think i'd mind if we ate less meat in general, so far what we've had has been really tasty and I don't feel like i'm missing out. And we saved so much money!!!"
Things i've learnt

• Starting with one meal a week really helps. But put effort into it. It will completely change the way you view veggie food as a meat eater.
  
• indian food never feels like you are 'missing' anything.
  
• Quorn is evil. I hate it. I hate it. I hate. Embrace the veggies.
  
• Vegetable Tangine is the easiest thing to cook. Everyone loves it. Just throw veg +spice in pot and oven roast. Add flat bread and rice.
  
• If you're a Veggie don't make converting people your life, it will backfire with a chorus of bacon. All dan did was come over for dinner and loudly talk about how great the food was.
  
• I don't miss bacon. Processed meat has already started to taste way to salty for me.
  
• I suddenly get why people saying 'But bacon' is so annoying.
  
• I'm either an epic cook or Dan is a really good bullshitter.
  
• Money can be a great incentive to reduce meat.
  
• I think once we account for buying of pulses we should save around £500 per year. That can get us flights to/ and hotel in Spain. With some money left for ice-cream.
  
• I buy free range eggs. I would definitely like to have my own hens in a few years.
  
• I'm now more conscious of the meat I do buy. Is this British? How was it sourced, How was it reared? Be wary of pork, A lot is bred in europe and 'fattened up' on UK shores so the ethical standards can be really different.
  

I'm taking a break from the main story right now to talk about what transpired last Thanksgiving. Inspired by lucialg's recent post When you started dating you SO, were there any early signs that your MiL was a NOMiL?. I have two words for you; pumpkin pie.
I love to bake and cook large meals for my friends and family. I'm pescetarian and SO is a vegetarian, and has been since he was 17. It's a big part of his life, and I enjoy finding ways to make traditional meals vegetarian friendly. For example, I make some mean vegetarian "bangers and mash" (sausages and mashed potatoes. We're American but "sausages and mashed potatoes" doesn't really have the same ring to it).
So, SO will have been together for three years in two weeks. Since the dawn of our relationship, I've made enough pumpkin pies every Thanksgiving to feed a very small army. I use this recipe, and please believe me when I say it is the very best pumpkin pie recipe out there. Depending on how I feel, I may actually procure a sugar pumpkin and make it that way, or I'll go to Earth Fare or some shit and buy the fresh puree if I'm feeling lazy. Sometimes I add a teaspoon of Black Seal rum. I make whipped cream from scratch. You bet your sweet ass it's delicious.
I don't make my own crust though, because I just can't get the hang of that cute crimped crust and I don't like ugly pies. It's Thanksgiving. No ugly pies.
So, if you can believe it, the first two years of mine and Cebolla's relationship were perfectly fine. I had no reason to believe she disliked me, and in fact, she always asked about me sweetly, always sent me gifts, and after that first Thanksgiving, always asked for my homemade pumpkin pie.
Last year during Thanksgiving, I had just moved into her and SFIL's home. We had misplaced our mixer in the movie, and Cebolla offered up her mixer wand for me to use. It had dust on it. This thing really was not ideal for mixing anything other than like, tomatoes, if you wanted to make tomato soup from scratch. Maybe dashed hopes and dreams with a pinch of cayenne. Anyway, it wasn't ideal. Now, Cebolla is a very persnickety and odd woman. She rails on about "Frankenfood" and "healthy eats" and "all organic", but... she doesn't cook. Like, at all. Guys, she legit bought some fresh salmon from Kroger one day, and threw it in the MICROWAVE WITH SOME LEMON AND BUTTER AND ATE IT THAT WAY. I have never heard of anything so vile and criminal. What a glorious waste of that delicious salmon!
I have to admit, though, at least she as eating that instead of the pre-sealed salmon bits (like tuna in a can) that she eats right out of the bag with her salad. All the while, she crowed and crooned about how healthy and delicious it was. And this woman never deviates from anything. Every day for dinner, a salad with an avocado, a few slices of swiss, and a martini. Maybe a boiled egg if she's feeling adventurous. Sorry, did I say martini? I mean a tumbler full of vodka with some lemon slices in it. Maybe three or four glasses per dinner. Listen, I like a good cocktail, and I enjoy getting lit from time to time, but damn.
For breakfast, she has a protein shake with coffee added to it. Lunch is, if she's not dining out somewhere eating salad and drinking a few glasses of wine, leftovers from the previous day. And anything "out of place" makes her go nuts. She actually told SO that chairs that were not properly tucked in (and mind you, they were tucked in... just not "good enough" or "close enough" to the table. These chairs were so tucked in by the time she was done with them that they were leaning slightly backward) were a disruption to her environment that made it so she could not properly "work" in her study. The living room. With the TV either on Dr. Oz or Fox News. So I knew that baking pies, to her, sounded good in theory, but would be a proverbial Grenada in practice.
So, you'd think during the holidays, she would cook. She does not. Cooking stresses her out, apparently. She has a beautiful medium sized kitchen that she never uses, and cupboards full of cooking paraphernalia that hasn't been touched since it was pulled from its box. So, because she dislikes cooking and everything related to it, you can't enjoy that activity either. Because of this, I tried to take as many shortcuts as I could with the pie. Pumpkin puree from the store, a small carton of eggs, the tiny pints of whole milk, the works. She didn't have proper mixing bowls, and the MEASURING SPOONS HAD RUST IN THEM. It got messy in spite of myself, because the bowl I did find was so shallow that of COURSE things are going to splatter. But, I did do this while she was out "working" (read: grocery shopping and drinking wine at the local diner when she was done to congratulate herself), and even SFIL commented that that was a pretty slick idea.
The wand mixer does an okay job with the pie ingredients, but the damn thing dies when I'm stupidly trying to make whipped cream. Like, this thing was new in the 70s, I'm sure. It just stopped working. Poor thing just tuckered out. Anyway, I was a little frantic - she'd already had a meltdown of epic proportions on SO over the chairs not being properly tucked in. I call him up and have him buy an ACTUAL mixer that has a wand attachment to it as a replacement, and end up buying premade whipped cream from the store later. Because I was cranky at that point.
Did I mention that Cebolla dearest had specifically asked me if I was making pumpkin pies this year? In the previous year, she had raved about my pumpkin pie, and everyone lived it. All her friends, her MOTHER who told me it reminded me of her grandmother's pie, everyone. She kept saying, "I can't believe that it's being made in my kitchen this year! This is so exciting!". And Cebolla specifically asked me if I would be willing to add fresh lemon zest to one of my pumpkin pies this year (I usually make two), just like her grandmother used to make. Well, sure! Why not?! It's the holidays! So I specifically made fresh lemon zest for one of the fucking pies. Per. Her. Request.
When she gets home from "work", I inform her of her mixer wand's demise. Funerary arrangements are discussed, a quick prayer of thanks for his selfless service is uttered, and he is ceremoniously chunked. There was no mess in the kitchen, everything was cleaned (especially the rusty measuring spoons..), her new mixer (with a mixer wand attached) was placed in the cupboard. Cebolla insists it isn't a big deal, she only used that thing when she made spanakopita for SFIL. It was old anyway, don't you worry your pretty little head, Incarnata! All was well.
Or so I thought.
Remember how I said that Cebolla doesn't cook? That is apparently a recent development. SO frequently comments that during all the time he knew her, she always cooked. She was big on it. She was also working class. Then she marries SFIL who made six figures, and suddenly, such things are far beneath her. Now she has the money to buy healthy food that is premade, or not cook at all. As previously mentioned, the holidays do not provide even a slight deviation from the norm. No exceptions. She wants to go to the Country Club. We did that nonsense for two years in a row, guys. SO stated that he thinks she just likes being waited on (a complete and utter IRONY if you've been reading my posts), and that it makes her feel fancy and high society.
This is a southern Country Club. Which means that "vegetarian" or "pescetarian" translates into "what d'ya mean ya don't eat meat? Vegetarian? Izzit sum kinna shorthand for a sleeper cell organization?" in southern peach dialect. The green beans have sausage in them, the potatoes have bacon in them (I do like vegetarian bacon and cheese in some mashed potatoes, though), etc. She knows SO is a vegetarian. He has been one since he was 17. Years. YEARS. She is well aware. She insists that we're going to the Country Club, and we'll come home for coffee and pie later.
Knowing this, SO and I planned ahead. We usually go with a Quorn roast, but last year, I found a fucking vegetarian "turkey". Like, they legit made a turkey mold and made a "turk'y".. This thing is a novelty, and it's overpriced. But it's fun! And it's Thanksgiving! You can't quash my holiday spirit! We order it and have it delivered, and Cebolla intercepts the package. The first thing out of her mouth is, "Did she have to get something so big? They have food at the Country Club anyway". Mind you, Cebolla only eats prepackaged anything, so the idea of something bigger than an avocado or a prepackaged salad is a hassle to her. We made our little fake turk'y (spoiler: it wasn't amazing. We're sticking to what we know this year), some vegetarian gravy (SFIL called the Country Club to request bacon free potatoes!), and we head out to the Country Club.
We're sitting at dinner. Cebolla is three glasses of wine in, cavorting with her friends and talking about how this is her favorite Thanksgiving tradition. Isn't this just wonderful? No mess, no fuss. Thanksgiving in a safe environment, too! They don't have to compete with anyone for a table or parking in this place (read: only well to do white people and their families, no working class people in questionable neighborhoods [readread: neighborhoods where there might be someone other than an ambiguous shade of beige living there]). SO and myself have found food we can eat, and we're enjoying our little meal. Suddenly, Cebolla begins to tell everyone about my pumpkin pie ordeal.
Being that she's a few drinks in, she's going on and on about the drama, the fact that I made poor SO go to the store after working all day so close to the holiday to buy another one when I was the one who broke her mixer! And she'd had that thing for so long, too! They just don't make electronics like they used to, but she'll have to make do with the new one she has. Oh well, she quips, taking another gulp of wine, acrylic nails tapping against her glass. Next year, we'll just buy a pie from the store.
I sit there in shock. I must have looked like a deer in headlights. SO puts his hand on my thigh, and gives me a gentle, reassuring squeeze. When I don't respond, and instead put down my napkin and finish my wine, he leans in after a moment to ask, "You wanna get out of here, kitten?" to which I nod quietly. SO informs the table that we are heading home, and that we'll catch them later. We collect our items, and whisk out the door with Cebolla proclaiming that this is awfully sudden, where are we even going? It's Thanksgiving, kids, this holiday is about family!
As SO drives us home, I'm sitting in the car dumbfounded and crying, asking him what the hell her problem is, and why the fuck would she do that? She assured me that it wasn't a problem! I went out of my way to make one of my pies to her requests! She was deliberately shaming me in front of her friends for reasons best known to herself. When we got home, I was ready to go to bed. But SO told me to put on something cute, because we were going to the local pub. We rang up a friend of ours and met there, drinking beer and lamenting that the holidays are often just an excuse for "family" to treat you like excrement underfoot so long as the day looked Hallmark perfect.
Months later, when SO confronted her on this little episode, she burst into tears, asking why on earth he was being so thoughtlessly cruel to her! She, of course, only meant that next year should be worry free! That's why they make premade pies! Well, I hope they'll add lemon zest to your fucking pies from Whole Foods, Cebolla, because not only are you not getting a pie from me this year, but you also won't be seeing us at all. And even if, for some reason, we all make up - you're still gonna have to buy a pie from the fucking store, you pickled old prune.
I ate basically all of the lemony pumpkin pie, not telling her which was which.
Edit: I specifically remember telling SO in the car that I had been so excited at the prospect of having an actual, normal family dynamic with them. No screaming matches during the holidays. None of mom's passive aggressive shit stirring for hours. No "be here by 4pm, dinner will be ready then" only to get there and dinner isn't started yet (she'd tell me that so that I would get there on her schedule so I could "spend time with her". I ended up telling her I'd come in about two hours after whatever time she gave me, and it'd often be so late that she'd have to start cooking on time). No shitty comments and clever barbs. But, I told him, as it turns out, there's just another nasty old bitch here too, so I guess I'll never know what it's like to have a family dynamic that could be construed as happy. I'm no longer upset about this... like I said in a previous installment, SO is more than enough family for me.

Last year I bought the Tofurkey 'stuffed turkey'. It was less than pleasing and barely edible - IMO. So this year I was on a mission to find something that my fiancé and I liked. So I bought three different items, all from Whole Foods (as that's where I was able to find any meat substitute for thanksgiving). I bought the Quorn Turkey log thing, The Gardein stuffed turkey rolls (the two pack and not the huge one in case we didn't like it.), and the Tofurkey Ham roast (yes, I know last years Tofurkey was a bust, but I was willing to try a different product out.)
Here are my thoughts:
Quorn - this was okay. I probably could have left it in the oven a tad longer to get more browned, but the temp inside was correct and I didn't want to ruin it. I enjoyed it right after it came out of the oven, but I have eaten some leftovers (both warmed up and cold in a 'turkey' salad), and it is too rubbery for my tastes. I'm not 100% I would buy this again, but it was a definite improvement over last year.
Tofurkey ham - Aside from the fact that the 'glaze' that came with it (you pour half on before cooking and the rest later) totally burned to a crisp on the pan and made the outside of the ham tough, this actually tasted pretty good. My fiancé and I were talking about the different things we could do with it outside of a holiday meal. It was very similar to chimex (a Mexican bologna we used to eat all the time when we were Omni). So I think I might buy another one and slice it on the mandolin slicer and see if it's still tasty.
Gardein - I saved the best for last. Seriously. I had my doubts buying this product because it was a stuffed turkey. But I was so surprised. The breading on the outside was pretty good, but next time I might crisp it a little more. The 'meat' was so tender and had a great flavor. This is definitely one of my favorites and I will be buying some more of these to stock in the freezer. And I'll cry when they are out of season.
Honestly I've only ever had one product from Gardein that I didn't like and that was their burgers (not black bean or veggie), but that could also be because I love Beyond Meat's Beyond Burger.
Anyway, that's my experience with this Thanksgiving. What about you? What did you have that you loved or hated (this Thanksgiving or any other)?

Just wondering what sorts of foods you guys like to eat which hinder the weight loss. I see a lot of people saying junk food here, but what? Two reasons for asking this: one I realised when I posed this question to myself there is a hell of a lot of crap food I assume I love eating but in reality I'm not that fussed about. It's a mindset thing, I realise I think I love eating all shit food and I don't. Two I am curious to see how you tackle those foods that send you into a frenzy.
Mine are:
Tonnes of cheese- French and Italian cheeses especially such as creamy Brie, blue cheeses and fresh mozzarella.
Crisps/chips to my American counterparts. Doritos and tex-mex dips. Cheese topped nachos with all the sauces.
Decent beers- craft and Belgian or German beers. Leffe nectar has me weak at the knees.
Good old chippy chips.
Foods I always thought I was obsessed with but realised I don't struggle without them: chocolate and sweets, fizzy drinks, fatty meats like ribs and fried chicken.
My substitutions are:
No cheese if I'm not hankering, if I am I buy pre-sliced wafer thin cheese. Edam and mozzarella tend to be lower than Cheddar and creamy blues. My local Asda sells 'salad cheese' which is basically feta but clocks in at 50 calories for 30g so I make a nice Greek salad. I have a tub of chilli and pepper cottage cheese I'm going to try soon too.
Crisps- pop chips on the odd occasion or pea snacks. More stores are selling these and individual packs are a godsend. Alternatively I buy a big bag, weigh out a portion and bung the bag back in a tall cupboard out of sight. Recently I got myself a really nice jar of olives for about £5. They're salty and fresh tasting, and take a while to nibble if stone is in. I figure I will spend £3-4 on crisps and dips, try something different. They're divine. I eat a lot of salsa and make it myself where possible. Same for fresh avocado. I don't have nacho cheese dip or sour cream anymore. If I want cheese nachos, I dice wafer thin edam and top a small portion of crisps with it and pop it in the microwave with lots of jalapeños and salsa to dip in.
Beer- my boyfriend and I have discussed a month of no beers or drinking in the house, until I graduate. If I want a beer, I buy an individual can and I scan the bar code in the shop before I buy it to check calories. Otherwise I stay on gin and slimline and have just one.
Chips- chippy chips are a gift from the Gods. I adore them with tonnes of salt and vinegar and mushy peas. I recently discovered though that if I eat a battered fish, I throw up. It has make a chippy trip far less likely. If I crave chips now I chop up a sweet potato or some baby spuds and roast them with lots of seasoning. Paprika, salt, pepper. Polish aisles sell this stuff called przyprawa do ziemniaków, it's literally seasoning for potatoes and it's heavenly so I use that and a touch of Fry light oil spray.
I'm not huge on beef burgers but I love quorn burgers with cheese on top. The burgers are 80calories each and taste awesome. Lots of salad, salsa and jalapeños, a nice bun around ~150 calories post-gym, it's a great meal.
I really want to hear your vices and how you overcome those buggers!